A Dialogue on Failure: Xmas Edition

Buenos Nachos Failure Amigos,

We've been toying for a while with the idea of writing some blog posts in the form of a conversation. Some issues are hard and have many good competing arguments...so we thought maybe if we wrote in a 'stream of conciousness' style maybe, just maybe, we could reach some enlightened conclusions. Either that, or it will devolve into one of those classic interweb arguments where we compare each other to Hitler. As always, let us know what you think...

LOL Always,
Paul et Alex

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On Being Grinches


ALEX: I guess I'll start off this little conversationfest with a rather morbid and depressing little fact about me. I, Alexander Joseph Nelder, do not like Christmas. Sure, I like it's ability to bring people together but I hate the rampant consumerism associated with it, those disgraceful movies about surburban American families competing with each other to see who has the best Christmas lights, Santa parades that are an excuse for every corporate logo in the Western Hemisphere to capture an audience of wide-eyed impressionable children, the fact the manger scene was made up by a Pope in the 13th Century and Santa by the guy in charge of Coca-Cola's advertising campaign. Obviously, I still celebrate Christmas - to refuse to would be the social equivalent of covering myself in horse manure and running naked through a kindergarten. Christmas, and the tree, and the carol singing and the cake and the presents (if not really the Jesus) are a big thing in my family as I'm sure it is for many families in New Zealand, and the Western World.

But, the wider point is that for many families in New Zealand and the Western World, Christmas is not one of the traditions celebrated in their household. So I find it offensive that in our society, which claims freedom of religion and a pluralistic state as two of its strongest corner-stones, Christmas is seen as a special holiday ,worthy of celebration in the public and private sphere, while other holidays of special significance to a cultural and religious group (namely, Diwali, Hanukah, Ramadam) are deemed to fall within the rubric of 'religious holiday' and cannot be recognised by the state. I'm not advocating the banning of Christmas Day (it didn't work out too well for Oliver Cromwell), nor am I calling for the recognition of all religious holidays to be granted as public holidays. However, I do think that public bodies in particular, but also corporations should have to write 'Happy Holidays' as opposed to 'Merry Christmas'. Doesn't seem to hard, does it?

What doth thou think, Paul?


PAUL: Well, I dunno. I'm not sure that to refuse to celebrate Christmas is the social equivalent of covering oneself in horse manure and running naked through a kindergarten. But what do I know; I've celebrated Festivus. But it seems to me that it's not important what you celebrate this time of year but, rather, that you celebrate. The fact is that this time of year is traditionally regarded as a social/family time of year; time to be merry. However religion is the traditional motivation to have get-togethers and be merry this time of year. But, I think, this turns out to be irrelevant too – traditional reasons for doing something don’t make that something is bad; nor do those traditional motivations need to be the only acceptable motivations. It's just easier for secularists (or, rather, all non-practicing Christians) to say they're celebrating Christmas when, in fact, they're celebrating christmas. (Did ya spot the difference there kids? The astute ones did, while those in the dunce hat went to go back to check.) So what's the difference that makes a difference between the big C and lil c? The former denotes a certain kind of religious event, while the latter just means you're having an event a la the end of It's a Wonderful Life or National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation .

Ok, Alex, before I let you get another word in let me answer your next question: So is it a good thing that religion has been kicked from the holiday season centre stage for most people in the Western World? Well, no, not really. I say that because the void that wouldn't have been left has been crammed full by corporations.

So what does that mean? Well I think that the absence of religious motivation backs up your (or, rather, our) intuition that public institutions shouldn't partake in "The Xmas Doctrine" – it doesn’t reflect the disposition of the majority. That aside, the problem boils down to this: even if public institutions are taken to mean christmas (lil c) when they say "Merry Christmas", that certainly doesn't make it alright; they are, after all, part of the public sphere and saying "Merry Christmas" makes other causes for celebration second-class (even if this isn't their intent). And that's wrong. So public institutions (and the representatives thereof) should only say "Happy Holidays". But I'm not convinced that Corporations should be as pliant to public attitudes as much as public institutions. I mean, so what if a corporation decides to distinctly celebrate Christmas? I certainly don't care if they bastardize it (more). Right??


ALEX: Even though my internet is currently too slow to let me watch clips from It's a Wonderful Life, you're right. There's two ways of celebrating Christmas, religious Christmas, which involves mass and manger scenes and Jesus, and secular Christmas, which involves red-nosed reindeer and those really nice pies with fruit mince. And I guess that elevates Christmas above other 'religious holidays' such as Ramadan. (It's pretty damn hard for an atheist to find starving themselves for a month fun.) I have heard a pretty good argument that, in fact, Christmas in NZ (and the rest of the Western world) had transcended its religious underpinnings to become an inherent part of Western culture, so to deny store employees the ability to wear Santa Hats in the name of 'religious sensitivity' was an attack on our cultural norms.

You've done a really good analysis of why public institutions should say 'Happy Holidays' as opposed to 'Merry Christmas'. The public sphere has to stay neutral on all aspects of religious activity, that is one of the demands of pluralism. But what would you say to a public institution displaying the more secular aspects of Christmas, the parts that don't pertain to religion directly. Obviously, a navitity scene set up on the grounds of a nation's Parliament would be an affront to pluralism, but what about a diorama of Santa and his reindeer. The bible doesn't mention Santa (though the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe does), so does that make it ok?

As for my original statement that corportations should also be forced to say 'Happy Holidays', let me try and defend that. In general, It shouldn't be the role of the state to decide what beliefs and celebrations are, and are not, acceptable for private individuals and entities to display. But maybe we should make an exception to this rule if the belief the private entity wanted to display was a comment on the inferiority of a class of persons in society. Say if Wal-Mart wanted to have a sale in honour of the KKK's existence or to celebrate the Holocaust, maybe it would be ok for the goverment to step in then and say 'That isn't OK'. Given you think that the reason public entitites should use happy holidays is to avoid a sense that other religious holidays are second class, surely a corporation that says 'Merry Xmas' at the exclusion of all other religious holiday is conveying this same sense of Christmas-centrism?

Maybe the difference I mentioned earlier applies again. Is it OK for a store to display Santa's Workshop, but not the Navitity scene?


PAUL: Well, shit, bro, I dunno. But I'd think that, when it comes to whether or not public institutions should be permitted to display icons of secular christmas (e.g. Santa and his elves), the issue hinges on the ambiguity between traditional/religious Christmas and secular chirstmas; and it's pretty ambiguous. When someone says Merry xmas I dunno really know if she's celebrating Christmas or christmas. So, because of that, it's essential that the government keep up appearances, I guess. And that can't be done if they throw Merry Christmas and Santa around. I'll try to make my point by drawing an analogy: it's not enough for those of public institutions to avoid conflict of interests, it's gotta also look like there's no conflict of interest. Follow me?

Now about corporations: So the issue no longer seems to be whether it's wrong for corporations, by their own will, to be pro-Christmas. Instead, it's should the government allow corporations the right to make that choice. I dunno. That seems a lil too much U.S.S.R. for me, but maybe I've just been reading too much P.J. O'Rourke lately. Private institutions are distinct in an important regard: they are primarily subject to the will of their shareholders and customers. So if you wanna say that Wal-mart ought not be allowed to have a KKK Day Sale, you'd better be comfortable saying that the customers and shareholders ought not be allowed t celebrate such a day as individuals. It comes down to the limits of acceptable free expression. Corporations are just another means through which ppl can express themselves; insofar as corps cater to the will of shareholders and customers. So here I'd say stores celebrating Santa-style xmas is okay, b/c it's an expression of what the (majority of) customers and shareholders are celebrating. This is, also, the mechanism by which Christmas has become de-religion-ized. Objections?

ALEX: Hmmm, I think we are in agreement as to Public Bodies, as in 'Dont mention Christmas, keep it neutral, keep it secular.' I'm not entirely convinced on your corporations point, but I don't think we're going to come to a conclusion on that unless we keep up this conversation 'till Jesus comes back. (lol) I think our disagreement lies in the fact you think that the state restricting a private entities right to celebrate something is a breach of the right to freedom of expression, and I think it's valid if it means people don't feel their religion is inferior.

I'd be interested to see what people think about this, whether we are valiant defenders of the pluralist state, or namby-pamby politically correct weiners. I'm going to go wrap presents now, and curse loudly every time an ad for that god-awful 'Four Holidays' movie comes on TV.

And from both of us at 'A word on Failure', Feliz Navidad.